ihavebeenfloated

After my last messageboard post, I didn’t think that OCsolace had a leg to stand on, at least as far as his “points” went. There are legitimate complaints about immigrants, don’t get me wrong, but implying that immigration challenges our national sovereignty and harms our civil rights are, well, interesting to say the least.

This is my last post on the matter. It is in response to this OCsolace post. I do believe that I truly finished the argument. After the post, there will be links to his reply as well has copies of various messages I got throughout this “argument”.

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I’m just going to go all out on this one. This will be my “swan song”.

I knew that after my last post you would no longer have a leg to stand on. And, well, you proved that, so that’s fantastic. I’m going to throw a little party today.

I also assumed you had no real understanding of what the word sovereignty meant, another fact that you so graciously proved to me.

“Freedom from outside influence”?

I suppose if you were trying to explain the word to a sixth grader, that would be sufficient, but when making an “argument” such as, and I paraphrase you here as you have never made this exact sentence but have inferred it, “immigrants endanger our national sovereignty,” it’s really important to actually know the specifics of what you’re implying.

Now, I’m no expert, and I wont attest to be, but simply sovereignty implies that a country or state rules itself. (In a state, here in the US, it implies that the state is ruled by the people and not the federal government, and it may just be my misunderstanding but I do not really see any state has being sovereign.)

You claim that illegal immigrants can be an “outside influence” that can endanger our sovereignty. Unfortunately for you the immigrants come here not to take over our government, or sway the opinion of the land, or even allow outside governments to govern us. Immigrants come here to live. If their children grow up into governors or other political figures, then they are governing inside our sovereignty, not outside of it. As an immigrant living inside of the United States, they are not “outside influences”.

Unless by “outside influences” you mean “Hispanic”, and this is actually a race issue, which is what I’ve, and many others, have assumed all along. But, for your sake, I’m going to hope that isn’t the problem and you are just a confused individual who doesn’t know what to make of his feelings.

Also, just to be a little “preschool” since you came at my education… I enjoy how your one “idea” of how our sovereignty is being threatened is the fact that immigrants (read: Hispanics) are undercutting the “indigenous work force”. Which is basically a big grown up way of saying, “THEY TOOK UR JOBS”

I am convinced, yet again, that your issue is not with any actual evidence that immigrants are “destroying America”, it is instead that you feel threatened by Hispanic influences. They come across the border illegally (strike one, they are not privileged enough to be born here, so they should not be here), they start working hard labor jobs that you wouldn’t do any way for low pay, (strike two, they should not be getting paid in US dollars since they don’t legally live here!), and then their children grow up to take the jobs us white people don’t work hard enough at (read: everything).

That is the real threat to you. You have no actual evidence. You have no real facts. Your evidence and your facts are your knee-jerk reaction to floods of different ethnicities polluting the cultural security of our previously-not-really-white-washed society. You haven’t got any numbers, any actual statistics, you have nothing. There is nothing there for you to back up your outrageous claims.

Aside from the “outside influences” statement, you have never actually clarified your point specifically with actual facts, but that’s OK, since I know you have none.

Again, I asked you for actual factual evidence that immigrants will endanger our country in some way. You provided none. How about factual evidence of our civil rights being endangered? You completely ignored that one, not much of a surprise there, really.

So what did you give me in your last message? Here’s a line by line break down.

“You don’t understand me, because you don’t understand Crime and Punishment”

Not really sure what that has to do with anything. Is that some hard rock band that I’ve never heard of that really “defines your being”?

“You insulted a lady, you have no honor.”

I didn’t insult a lady. I called her out on being a goddamn moron. When you’re telling the truth, well, it’s not really an insult in my book.

“Yeah, that blurb you mentioned in your last post about religion not being related to the argument? YEAH WELL RELIGION ISN’T RELATED TO THE ARGUMENT SO STOP BRINGING IT UP!!”

Thanks for actually reading the things I write. That was brilliant.

“I’m going to make an extremely simplistic definition of a relatively complex word in order to satisfy my agenda and make me feel smarter than you. Watch this. Sovereignty means freedom from outside influence. Immigrant means outside influence. Now, really, don’t you see how Immigrants and Sovereignty can’t get along?”

No, actually, I don’t.

“You stray from the argument some more! Nevermind that you actually didn’t stray from the argument since you unwaveringly questioned everything I said in your last post, I’m going to say it again anyway: YOU STRAY FROM THE ARGUMENT, SIR!”

I can’t even really justify this with a response since it seems that you have your word processor set to replace “Actually, I’m sorry, I have no idea what I’m talking about,” with “YOU STRAY FROM THE ARGUMENT” Next up…

“I am not fighting anything. I am arguing. You are incoherent and have never posed an actual argument, so I’m not sure why I’m wasting all my time replying to you. Oh, yeah, it must be because I am a moron.”

You figured that one out all on your own, buddy! Thanks for saying it so I don’t have to.

“LOLOL UR DUMB, ur parents should leik ask their money back from california cos ur so dumb lolol.”

...Sigh.

So, to add it up, out of six miniature paragraphs about, hm, something, you only actually half-addressed one of my points.

You can consider this a victory. You have actually forcibly proved your stupidity to such a grand level that I really have nothing left to say. Your words are more insulting to your being than my existence is.

I find that rather sad.

Regardless, you may continue on, posting whatever it is you like to post about how much you hate whoever it is that is violating the sanctity of this great country of ours. I’d prefer it that instead of actually completely making up things you would just come out and admit to the fact that you’re a prejudiced bigot.

(Note for the ignorant: prejudiced bigot does not actually imply specific racism. It implies stupidity on a grand level. Just thought I would specify for, well, the person the phrase is directed to. You can look it up to make sure if you like.)

From this moment on, I’ll watch this board. Oh, I’ll even read your posts, because I desperately want to understand and believe that you have an actual point. My greatest fear is that my assumptions about you are true, it really is. I want nothing more for you to suddenly burst forth with a great outpouring of intelligence and fact. I would admit true defeat if you could actually prove to me that immigrants are an honest threat to any of the things you have previously stated.

But, and unfortunately I know this in the core of my being, that day will never come.

Until then, good-bye everyone. I hope you’ve enjoyed these as much as I’ve enjoyed writing them.

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OCsolace’s two replies: Main Entry: sovereignty, and illegal immigration.

Also, the woman who actually started the whole debate posted the only support seen for OCsolace, which is relatively hilarious in it’s own right. (I hope the two trolls meet each other and spawn lots of liberal babies that cause them to kill themselves.)

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A selection of messages I got… Note, these are not edited, and I actually did not get any “hate” mails about it, which I find extremely surprising.

Beautiful. Your writing is a poetic symphony of logic and reason. I look forward to your future posts.

By the way, what is it with 21 year-old guys (myself, yourself, sarcasticcomment) and being so goddamn rational? Another freakish coincidence, we’re all from the West Coast. As OKC would say it, “uncanny.”

hey.

well, im normally not much for messaging people (especially those i dont know…) but well, i enjoyed your bulletin posts (i guess that places me in category 1) and just wanted to send a message of support, cause i can only imagine what kinda messages you are getting from xenophobic dumb-fucks…

well, not really looking to start a conversation or anything (i rarely have time to log on here anymore, and im a horrible correspondant besides…) but just wanted to voice what support i could, since there are too many of us people who feel this way and dont speak up/out (myself) and too few who do feel this way and do speak up/out (that would be you).

so, thanx for posting a reasonable response and all, and if at all possible, try to keep it up, and dont let people get you down or whatever…

Hey,

I have read all your posts and I agree 150%! You are very smart and intelligent and I just wanted to say thank you for posting something intelligent in favor of these poor, hardworking immigrants. Keep up the good work, you have a supporter here!

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This all was actually a bit of a learning experience. As people who have read my site(s) for any length of time know, I tend to get a little over-aggressive and completely destroy whatever point I was trying to make by covering it in a liberal application of swear words and insults. This time, however, I kept it all very calm and tried to stick to the matter at hand (with the exception of the very first post), namely disproving each and every single one of his hilarious “points”.

The fact that doing so resulted in a lot of positive feedback from people, well, I think that shows something. As long as you keep yourself calm, rational, and make logical arguments against someones points, well, anyone can love you. I realize only now that I made little argument that was pro-immigration… Mostly I was just arguing against his extreme level of ignorance.

Anyway, it was fun. It’s certainly woken me up to things that I might be good at that I wasn’t aware of. Are there politics in my future? Hmm…